Jan 25 2012
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Tasha Robinson and I Discuss the Meaning of CERTIFIED COPY (Spoilers)
- David Chen: have you seen CERTIFIED COPY?
- Tasha Robinson: Oh yes. Talked about it extensively on our video podcast back in the day. Adam Kempenaar of Filmspotting says I'm the reason he saw it, and it was in his top 5 for the year.
- David Chen: WELL THEN
- Tasha Robinson: Also, Dave: War Horse? Really? War Horse?
- Tasha Robinson: I mean: WAR HORSE?
- Tasha Robinson: (I'm just saying.)
- David Chen: Look, at least in WAR HORSE, you knew what was happening.
- David Chen: At least WAR HORSE ISN'T SOME KIND OF WHACKED OUT SCIENCE FICTION MOVIE.
- David Chen: (like CERTIFIED COPY is)
- Tasha Robinson: It is true, at no point did I think any of the horses were just making up their experience as a complicated philosophical exploration of the nature of reality.
- Tasha Robinson: They were all just like "Oh shit, bombs! Run!"
- David Chen: ROFL
- David Chen: Well then.
- David Chen: I REST MY CASE.
- David Chen: Alright
- David Chen: I need to talk with someone about this film
- David Chen: What is your interpretation on the film?
- Tasha Robinson: That's a really broad question that I'm not sure how to answer.
- Tasha Robinson: I mean, my take is that either they are an old married couple or they aren't — I lean toward aren't — but you aren't meant to know.
- Tasha Robinson: And that the point of the story is to explore whether it's true that a well-made copy is just as valid as the real thing.
- Tasha Robinson: You're meant to wonder which aspect of their relationship is the fake, the copy — the pretense that they don't know each other at the beginning, or the one they fall into, where they do.
- Tasha Robinson: The film is packed with images and shadows of the central couple, seen in reflections in mirrors and glass surfaces, and depicted at various points of their lives — young newlyweds, old couple — to further enhance the idea that there are many fake copies of their relationship.
- Tasha Robinson: But I feel like it's a puzzle that's meant to be enjoyed as a puzzle, not to be solved.
- Tasha Robinson: That's pretty much my take.
- David Chen: Pretty solid take. What do you mean by the "fake copies"?
- Tasha Robinson: Yeah, that's a redundant phrase.
- Tasha Robinson: Shadows might be a better term. More images that aren't really them but could be them at different points of their lives or thelr relationships.
- David Chen: Right
- Tasha Robinson: It's just a motif that runs throughout the film, I think because the film isn't just about duality — theyr
- Tasha Robinson: —they aren't just one of two things, strangers or old lovers. They're on a continuum of possible realities.
- Tasha Robinson: Which may speak to your whacked-out science-fiction claim.
- Tasha Robinson: What did you think of it?
- David Chen: http://www.davechen.net/2012/01/wonder-of-certified-copy.html
- David Chen: I thought the MUBI piece was pretty interesting
- David Chen: I'm a pretty literal minded person
- David Chen: and that interpretation allows me to deal with this movie in a way that makes sense to me
- David Chen: basically
- David Chen: he argues that what we're seeing in the film is not some kind of literal depiction of a marriage or an encounter between strangers
- David Chen: rather the film shifts between time and reailty in a completely imperceptible way
- David Chen: ultimately though he does come down on the side of "they're married"
- David Chen: which I don't think makes much sense in light of that itnerpretation
- David Chen: but he does make the point that interpreting it as a "Strangers playing at being married" tale makes it "Before Sunset" with a gimmick
- David Chen: and that robs the film of its power. It is, as you said, an exploration of what reality is, what truth is.
- David Chen: So to answer your original question: There is no spoon.
- Tasha Robinson: I think it IS Before Sunset with a gimmick, but that doesn't make it bad.
- Tasha Robinson: I mean, you can say "Before Sunset is just a couple people talking." That doesn't make it a worse film.
- David Chen: no as in,
- David Chen: some people think
- David Chen: that it's literally a pair of strangers playing some kind of game
- David Chen: and he does not agree with that interpretation.
- David Chen: but I think I come down on the side of: There is no answer because the film is not a depiction of a linear series of events that resemble the reality we all know.
- David Chen: It shifts between a reality where they don't know each other to a reality where they are married, seamlessly.
- Tasha Robinson: That's an excellent way of putting it.
- David Chen: It is "science fiction" in that way.
- David Chen: But it does this to illustrate its point.
- David Chen: and its point are what you've already stated: is a "copy" of a relationship just as good as the real thing?
- David Chen: (pretty freaking on the nose, that book of his)
- Tasha Robinson: Well, I don't think the book is a coincidence.
- David Chen: IT's clearly not
- David Chen: it's the opposite of a coincidence
- David Chen: it's an explicit way for the director/writer to make their point
- Tasha Robinson: I think she actively sets out to prove his theory wrong.
- Tasha Robinson: Yeah, but I think it also drives the narrative as an object.
- Tasha Robinson: I think she finds his theory annoying and sets out to disprove it by creating a copy of a relationship, thinking he'll flinch away from it and disprove himself.
- Tasha Robinson: And he gamely goes along, so she makes it more and more uncomfortable, and about his flaws and faults.
- Tasha Robinson: But he maintains the pretense, and she gets drawn into the reality she's created.
- Tasha Robinson: Until by the end it seems like the copy she's created is more real than where they started.
- Tasha Robinson: Essentially proving his point.
- Tasha Robinson: I do see the film as a negotiation between two real people who remain the same throughout.
- Tasha Robinson: I don't believe they're traveling through different universes or anything.
- Tasha Robinson: I think they're exploring a philosophical point and finding out that the world is more malleable than they might have previously thought.
